Wills he pop the question?

[Countess of Highgrove]

Great post,Anita!

[Sven]

^Perhaps they're just doing the same thing they did last year which is typical of them. They sound like an old married couple stuck in a rut of routine    I, too, think he should have sowed his oats a little more but like someone said he could have and we just didn't hear about it because the public focus was always on Kate.

To me, it's not an issue of sowing his wild oats, but more a sense of having a few serious relationships that would give him a chance to prepare for marriage.  I'm sure he has slept around on Kate (Most men are only as faithful as their options and William has plenty), but I don't believe he's had the necessary experience to be ready for a healthy, long-term marriage, let alone one under the extraordinary circumstances of being a Royal.

When people get together and stay together I generally don't see any reason to question why. I expect that like in my own relationship it's because the two people involved love eachother and want to stay together. Some choose to marry, some choose to live together, some choose to live apart , but still be a couple.  
I would not tell a person  you can't love your partner enough because you haven't dated enough people. I wouldn't assume that a guy keeps a partner until he finds something better.And it's rather ignorant to think that if you date around a lot when younger, you will be a better partner later on. I know enough guys who weren't able to change their habits after marriage to not be impressed by such a theory. I would say that those who find their partners at an early age are entitled to have their love taken as seriously as anybody else. And finally I do not understand the wish to find something wrong/bad in William's relationship or his choice of partner. There are IMO no  signs that he isn't doing ever so well.  I think we should all be able to live with that fact, we should be happy for him really.

First, the issue is that they started dating when they were incredibly young.  I'm just 28 myself and even I can see that 20 is beyond young and with it comes a lack of maturity simply through lack of experience.  To think a relationship that starts when you're about 20 leads to a successful marriage, let alone one that faces the incredible pressures a Royal one faces, is most unrealistic.*

Second, no one is saying that it's guaranteed you'll be a better marriage partner simply because you date more.  I am simply talking about experience, which simply gives you a chance to become wiser.  For example, it's not guaranteed that if you go onto college and graduate school that you'll be more enriched in life.  You can choose to slack off.  However, it certainly gives you an incredible opportunity to enrich yourself.  Experience counts, tremendously so in anything we do.

Lastly, why do you assume anyone is wishing to find fault?  It's rather obvious Kate is only hanging on for the crown and that she's rather anemic when it comes to work ethic.  Should I blind myself to that reality?  I'm not interested in their romantic relationship, just their working relationship.  They don't have a good one, it seems (e.g., lack of work ethic on her part, William's lack of ease with her in public).

*Yes, I'm aware that the Queen started dating Prince Phillip when she was incredibly young, but again, this is about likelihood.  I didn't say it was impossible, just unlikely.

[Sven]

But Kate has basically run the clock down.  Game over.

How can anyone argue with an avatar like you have?   

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but it's fine either way.  Seriously though, Kate will be William's bride.

[anita]

I don't see a lack of work ethic in Kate Middleton. I don't see a lack of ease with Kate in public for Prince William. Have read about these "facts" here for years now, but nothing can convince me about that. But then again  I don't judge people from what a couple of tabloid journalist say and from pictures taken in a millisecond. Feel free to do so, but at least say that it's your opinion and not "facts".

[drezzle]

The default assumption here is that we're all stating our opinions here based on our life's experiences and knowledge.  There should be no need to add IMO at the end of every post.  The problem comes when someone strongly suggests insider knowledge and presents facts as a result -- for example, Karagiosis.  

How can anyone argue with an avatar like you have?   

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but it's fine either way.  Seriously though, Kate will be William's bride.

Your avatar is great -- I just love it.   

[MapleLeaf]

When people get together and stay together I generally don't see any reason to question why. I expect that like in my own relationship it's because the two people involved love eachother and want to stay together. Some choose to marry, some choose to live together, some choose to live apart , but still be a couple.  
I would not tell a person  you can't love your partner enough because you haven't dated enough people. I wouldn't assume that a guy keeps a partner until he finds something better.And it's rather ignorant to think that if you date around a lot when younger, you will be a better partner later on. I know enough guys who weren't able to change their habits after marriage to not be impressed by such a theory. I would say that those who find their partners at an early age are entitled to have their love taken as seriously as anybody else. And finally I do not understand the wish to find something wrong/bad in William's relationship or his choice of partner. There are IMO no  signs that he isn't doing ever so well.  I think we should all be able to live with that fact, we should be happy for him really.

^  ^   Anita, I totally agree with your post, especially the part I put in bold.  It's true, Wills is a grown man who is capable of making his own decisions.  That he continues to be with Kate should be enough for everyone to accept that it's what Wills wants.  If it wasn't, he'd have done something different.  

After all, Wills and Kate broke up in April 2007.  When he and Kate broke up and spent time apart, they both experienced life as single adult people who were not teenagers or at uni.  They were both free to date whomever they liked, whenever they liked.  Wills can think for himself and is able to make decisions that benefit his own best interests and his own emotional well-being.  HE made the choice to reconcile with Kate in 2007.

There is no way in heaven or earth that Kate could've forced Wills to do anything he didn't want to do.  That's why I don't understand why some people have difficulty comprehending that.  If nothing else, the break up gave Wills time to take a step back and examine his feelings.  It could be that after being apart from Kate and examining his feelings, Wills decided that being in a relationship with her was what he wanted.  Because no matter what anyone has to say about it, there is no getting around the fact that Wills and Kate reconciled in 2007 and have been together ever since. Their relationship exists; it is what it is  

I definately say, he has not had enough relationships and one day, he'll know that himself!! They met, IMO, too young, to be going to together for 8 /9 or 10 years. I believe he truly respects Kate and admires some of her traits but I honestly feel he is settling, IF he goes ahead and marries her, as I said on another thread...

How would any of us know if Wills has or has not had enough relationships?  We aren't him, and we don't have access to his mind or his feelings.  It's not as if Wills hasn't had plenty of interaction with women other than Kate Middleton.

Some details: according to reports in the press Wills has had relationships with girls for years, starting with his relationship with his first girlfriend Zara Simmonds at age 13.  Zara S. is said to be the first girl Wills ever kissed.  

At age 16 a CCTV camera reportedly caught Wills in flagrante delicto or 'being intimate' with a girl in a hallway during a party.  

In August 1999 when Wills was 17 he went on an Aegean cruise around the Greek isles on the privately owned luxury yacht 'Alexander'.  The press called it the 'Love Boat' cruise because the sailors were Wills, his friends (including a couple of Van Cutsem brothers), and a group of six 'hot tottie' girls including Davina Duckworth-Chad and Emilia D'Erlanger, and supposedly one of those six girls was his girlfriend of the moment.  Prince Charles was along too, but somehow I doubt if he was a tough chaperon.  

Wills had relationships the ages of 17 and 18 as well, including Natalie Hicks-Löbbecke, Jecca Craig, and Arabella Musgrave.  In 2001 Wills was in a relationship with Arabella Musgrave right up until he left to go to St. Andrews when he was 19.  He was said to really be in love with Arabella at the time.  

After he arrived at uni, during his first year he dated Carla Massy-Birch.  After he and Carla broke up, Wills was single and he dated other women, but Kate Middleton was in a relationship with Rupert Finch during that time.  So even though Wills has been with Kate longer than any other woman in his life, he has experienced other relationships.

Regarding Wills and Kate being together for 8/9/ or 10 years: Wills and Kate met and became friends in 2001, but they weren't in a relationship.  The BBC and other reliable news agencies reported that Wills and Kate started dating sometime during December 2003, after Kate and Rupert Finch broke up.  That means as of December 2009 they've been together for 6 years.

[teachkid]

   Excellent post, Mapleleaf! 

[Ursula]

Yes it was!  Mapleleaf, your research is amazing!   

[Jenee]

Maple, I think we can discount any relationship William was in as a teenager. Those were *not* adult relationships that resulted in any type of life experience. In judging from my own relationship history, I learned absolutely nothing about men from my teenage relationships. As an adult, with an adult's maturity level and an adult's problems and responsibilities, he has had only one relationship, the one with Kate. In my personal opinion, that is a very bad thing. It has taken me a number of adult relationships to figure out exactly what I want, and don't want, in a lifelong partner. I don't think that I'm a slow learner and this is outside of the norm - I think that William may wake up one day, 20 years from now, and really regret not exploring his options more when he had the chance.

[sandy]

 The earlier relationships seemed more lke "flings" in any case they didn't last that long.  I think he was just friends with Jeca but he didn't experience what I would call a real boyfriend-girlfriend relationshp pre Kate.
His having sex at the club is not exactly what I'd call a real "relationshp"--just sex

[wannabe]

Time will tell if it ends up like E&P. William seems to be determined and will do a granny.

[Ursula]

Jenee, I totally get what you're saying about growing/learning, etc.  Been there, done that, so to speak.  But on the other hand, what if you do meet the right one at an earlier age (and some people do)?  Do you put that person on hold for the sake of exploring other options?  

And consider William's position - maybe he's had more than his share of encounters with people who were only after him for his royal persona and the perks.  Maybe he sees something different in Kate.  I'd say the time they've spent together is in their favor.      

[Jenee]

Jenee, I totally get what you're saying about growing/learning, etc.  Been there, done that, so to speak.  But on the other hand, what if you do meet the right one at an earlier age (and some people do)?  Do you put that person on hold for the sake of exploring other options? 

That's a good question Ursula, and I do think that it happens every so often. I work with a woman who has been with her husband since Jr. High School (they are now in their early 30's). They seem to be happy enough.  On the other hand, neither had the options that Prince William has. More options means more opportunity to meet someone who is perfect for you!

I don't think that, at 21 years old, William knew that he had met "the one" - I don't think that at 25 years old William knew that he had met "the one" - he's still too young and inexperienced to really know that, IMO, of course. Now that he is 27, if he'd had more dating experience in his early 20's, I think he could have made that determination with some conviction - but he didn't have more dating experience in his early 20's. As an adult, all he has ever known is Kate (presumably).

That's not to say that Kate isn't "the one" - but I do think that William seems to be really dragging his feet, and that is pretty darn telling of his feelings and intentions. It seems to me that he is still holding out - for a sign that she either is or isn't the right one for him. Since he has no real experience to fall back on, I think he's looking for some outward sign. Some slip-up on Kate's part, some big fiasco that would give him reason to drop her. Or, a lack there of- and I think that as long as Kate plays her cards right, and doesn't speak to the press, doesn't get involved in anything really unbecoming (drugs, etc) then he'll eventually propose. I don't think that the reason he hasn't yet has anything to do with his military career or not wanting to overshadow some random event each year. The year is long folks, there is plenty of room for multiple royal events in each one!

[Ursula]

I'm not so sure about him dragging his feet.  Prince William Wales certainly has many options available to him and if he isn't exercising any of them, well, then it must be his choice not to do so.  But as others have said, only time will tell.  I just tend to believe it's in their favor.    We shall see, eh?  

[gec]

I get the impression that stability is important for William.

His family life wasn't the most stable out there.

In Kate he has found a stable relationship and a stable family unit.

More important than dating experience is getting qualities which are essential to you; like trust, discretion, contentment....

[Lady63]

Imho if William had truly met the 'one' he would have married her but I believe he hasn't.  I don't believe for one minute that he doesn't have feelings for Kate, but they imho are not enough to marry her, if they were, he would have.  For we are all aware of that feeling when we meet 'the one', we just know and long informal relationships will not satisfy that need to be with that special someone.  I could be wrong, it's not the first time but imho I just think I'm right on this.  I'm not saying he won't marry her, imho in the end he may have to because to not would look really callous plus she would then have to get a real job and real life and for her after waiting so long for the ring and tiara it could be just all too much for her.

Regards,
Lady63

[Jenee]

More important than dating experience is getting qualities which are essential to you; like trust, discretion, contentment....

I agree, but I also think that without dating experience, one doesn't really know what qualities are essential to them.

[Countess of Highgrove]

Several things puzzle me. First is this feeling that some people seem to have that one need to date a variety of people to determine which they love the best. I married my first real boyfriend after being together for over 10 years and the driving force behind our decision to marry was because we wanted children. The marriage itself did not define our relationship.

The other thing I have trouble grasping is why so many people feel the man must propose to show his commitment and love. The concept that he is "not sure" if he wants to marry her after all this time is one that is impossible for me to accept. This is a high profile,great looking,rich man who will be king someday. He has the pick of the litter if he chooses. He has chosen to stay with Kate. He is not under some spell as some think.

I fully understand why this wedding is so important to the press and it is not because they love a happy ending. It is because the money the wedding and the marriage in general will generate is HUGE.

There is so much meanness and animonsity on the internet toward Kate all mainly because she has chosen to put her partner first and support him until they are ready to take that next step. I have to wonder if those who day in and day out spew meanness and hate would feel if they were in Kate's shoes. Sitting behind a keyboard and talking trash about a person you never met is quite cowardly,IMO.

When will he pop the question? The real question is  "when will they tell us"?

[Jenee]

COH, I see no "meanness", "hate" or "trash talk" in this thread - in fact, until your post, I thought that we were having a very lively and adult discussion. I'm very insulted by your post. I am basing my opinion on my own experiences, as I assume you are as well. I didn't sling around words like "hate" and "trash talk" when I disagreed with other people, why must you lower this thread to that level by bringing it up in yours??

In my personal experience, marrying your first long-term boyfriend rarely results in a lasting, loving, long-term marriage.

[drezzle]

I have to wonder if those who day in and day out spew meanness and hate would feel if they were in Kate's shoes. Sitting behind a keyboard and talking trash about a person you never met is quite cowardly,IMO.

This is a discussion forum, not some dictatorship where no negative comments are allowed about certain public figures.  I would prefer to hear open, honest opinions whatever they might be than to squash those opinions and any discussion. 

[Countess of Highgrove]

Forgive me for not making myself more clear. I did not mean to imply the meanness and trash talk existed in this thread but around the internet in general, and yes at times on this forum. One does not have to look too far to find hate and meanness directed toward Kate,though. Not in this thread,however. Sorry for not making that point clear.

[Jenee]

Drezzle, I agree, though I think we can all check the "hate" at the door- regardless of our opinion, there is a right way and a wrong way to word things.

COH _ thanks for the clarification. Do you really think an announcement would not be made immediately? I hardly think that in a digital age, they would be able to keep it secret for long.

[Countess of Highgrove]

I think they are on their own timetable. Given the maddness that will likely occur once they announce,I would imagine neither is in a big hurry. It's kind of ironic to me that in general when you read comments left on blog sites and on online newspaper articles, the general feeling is that William is keeping Kate waiting and why hasn't he proposed. Maybe it is the other way around. Maye Kate is not ready to give up her private life and become a future queen just yet. Remember that nasty video of the papparazzi and Kate. "This is my private life" were her words,I believe. Maybe she wants to hold onto that as long as she can. I think there is much we don't know and the puzzle will be much clearer once they announce and actually talk. To date,we have the press' side and the public's side but William and Kate have remained silent and theirs is the only true account of events.

[Jenee]

Yes, I remember that video, but that was several years ago now. She's effectively given up her private life already - she's moved back home with her parents, she's seemingly given up on getting a job outside of working for family, or friends of family... she's pretty cloistered as it is. I kind of feel sorry for her. Lady in Limbo.

[Countess of Highgrove]

Right,exactly. I read people say things like "she wants the tiara and will do anything to get it" or "she's in it for the ring" etc. I can't see that because call a spade a spade and as wonderful as Wills probably is, the word albatross comes to mind.  Forgetting the glamour and fairytale stuff for a moment. How many people would really want to get married in front of 700 million strangers? I know I wouldn't. Truth be told,Kate's life without William is way easier. She marries a rich guy,lives well,does not have to worry about working enough or at all. She can raise her kids in a country farmhouse and holiday with her family when she wants. I wish her luck,I really do. If she marries him she is signing up for a job that ends when she dies. Not so glamorous,IMO. I think she loves him a whole lot.